I am delighted to see that David Cameron is taking on the anti-British extremists who want to abolish the NHS and the BBC, dismantle the Armed Forces, deceive the House of Commons as to which wars we were fighting, read everyone's correspondence, and portray the Queen as a Nazi.
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The war against ISIS in Syria is a continuation of the war against ISIS in Iraq that Parliament approved in 2014.
ReplyDeleteIf Parliament must be automatically informed without an FOI request every time individual British personnel are embedded with foreign armies, why has nobody ever raised the issue till now, when that practice is decades old?
The SAS in particular have been embedded with other forces in conflicts we were officially part of, for many years.
Parliament had not explicitly voted against British participation in those conflicts.
DeleteIn any case, that something has been going on for years is, in itself, neither here nor there.
It is quite obvious that the Americans just order up our forces as coolies and cannon fodder. Even, in this case, in defiance of the will of Parliament.
No one, including Fallon, tried to make the case that you were making. His performance was pitiful, and if there had been a motion then he would already have been gone by now.
In which case, how could Cameron have survived in office, either? This one will be back.
You're confused. Parliament ""explicitly voted against" war with Assad, not with ISIS. It voted for that in 2014.
ReplyDeleteYou should listen to Chukka Ummuna. He said precisely what Ive just said on Any Questions.
We can't blame Cameron for the mere continuation of a practice which has been ongoing under successive British Govrrnment's for years.
If there was something unParliamentary about it, someone should have raised it before now.
Those who didn't, and suddenly pretend to be horrified by it now the Tories are in office, are simply opportunistic frauds.
If I'm "confused" (oh, no, I am not, dear boy), then so was every very angry MP this afternoon. Including several of your political heroes.
DeleteThis one will be back with a vengeance.
I'm no more for this war than any of them. But the facts are the facts.
ReplyDeleteThis practice is very well-established and it didn't start with Mr Cameron.
Nor did Parliament ever vote against war with ISIS, only with Assad.
I respect the fact we only voted for war with ISIS in Iraq, not Syria. But do you think they respect borders?
The Commons motion did.
Delete"British SAS personnel are known to have been operating in Thailand as trainers for the Thai Special Forces but it has been suggested that from there they were also able to support covert attacks onto the Ho Chi Minh trail.
ReplyDelete"One of the men who was responsible in such an operation was Sergeant Dick Meadows of 22 SAS seen in June 1969's edition of the SAS 'Mars and Minerva' journal in a US Army uniform receiving the Silver Star for his service in Vietnam."
Naughty, naughty, Mr. Wilson.
Parliament had not specifically voted to stay out of Vietnam.
DeleteIndeed, Anon (12:13). Everyone knows the secret deployment of our forces in conflicts without Parliamentary knowledge or approval, has been going on for decades. We were fighting with Australian forces in East Timor without the knowledge of Parliament under New Labour in 1999.
ReplyDeleteThey've been operating in all sorts of places under US command since the 1950's.
UK military personnel have been embedded within forces of other nations for more than 60 years, according to the Ministry of Defence (MoD). Agreements are in place with allies including the US, Canada, France, and Australia.
Why is everyone suddenly squawking now about this "hiding our involvement from Parliament" nonsense, having never raised the issue at any point in the last 60 years?
I mean, did I hear someone say "opportunistic frauds"?
Notice Lindsay-and the others-have now subtly changed their objection to this. They first said the problem was that our involvement in Syria was "hidden from Parliament". But, in that case, every Prime Minister going back to Wilson is guilty of the same thing.
So blaming Cameron doesn't really work.
Now they say it's because Parliament voted against involvement in the war. It never voted for involvement in any of the other wars either, though.
Mr Lindsay doesn't seem to wonder why certain holier-than-thou political opportunists are just pretending to have discovered this apparently awful practice now that Cameron is in power.
They never noticed it when Labour was in power.
Please don't make me laugh.
The problem is that this is contrary to a direct resolution of the House. Cameron did not have to bring one. But he did, so here we are.
DeleteI do have some doubts about parliamentary votes before military action. They might make it more difficult for MPs to scrutinise that action. Ministers could turn round and say, "Well, the House voted for this."
But if such a vote has been held, then it has been held.
It's not clear that it is contrary to such a resolution since the war on the table at the time was a war on Assad-ISIS, as you know, are actually his opponents.
ReplyDeleteAs far as I can find out, the MOD says individual personnel embedded with other allies (it was just three individuals in this case, to stop anyone getting carried away) operate under fge mandate of those they are embedded with and take orders from.
At least, that's been the practice up until now.
As I say, if someone wanted to change this or thought it was wrong, they've had sixty years to do it.
There's no point pretending that Cameron invented it or that he deliberately did it to defy the will of Parliament since that is plainly absurd-the will of Parliament was not to use force against Assad regime and these three individuals are fighting against Assad's enemies.
In what way is sending all of three personnel to help fight Assad's enemies (whom we are already fighting elsewhere) a secret plot to defy the will of Parliament not to fight Assad?
It's just an absurd allegation.
As far as, it would seem, pretty much all MPs are concerned, the House resolved to stay out of Syria altogether. They are not going to let this one go.
Delete