Thursday, 8 November 2007

A Matter Of Protocol

I have looked into the weird "lizard masters" comment left on a previous post, and it seems that this is a way by which the members of a certain subculture accuse anyone who disagrees with them of being anti-Semitic. Guess which subculture.

It doesn't matter to them that most American Jews did not vote for the War Party, insofar as they had any option not to, at either the last Presidential or the last Congressional Election. Nor that large numbers of Israeli Jews make a point of voting against the War Party at every opportunity. No, the levelling of this ridiculous charge, apparently even against anyone who so much as uses the term "well-funded", is one of, shall we say, their Protocols (do your worst!).

Look at the list of signatories to the Project for the New American Century, just for a start. If Francis Fukuyama (a partially lapsed but now returning neocon), Dick Cheney, Steve Forbes, Dan Quayle or Zalmay Khalizad is Jewish, then I for one will be extremely surprised. Never mind Jeb Bush.

Even people whose names look as if they might be - George Weigel, Donald Rumsfeld, Gary Bauer - are not, Weigel being in fact a German-descended Catholic (and biographer of John Paul II, to whom he should have paid more attention), Rumsfeld a German-descended Protestant-if-anything, and Bauer one of America's leading Evangelical Protestants (and also, obviously, of German descent).

The Elders of Zion never existed at all. The World Masonic Conspiracy has never existed, whatever the Lodge might have acted as an organising tool for in individual countries or cities. Neither the Catholic Church generally nor the Society of Jesus specifically has ever been at the centre of any sort of political network, whatever individual Catholics or Jesuits might have done; the same is true of Opus Dei (although what if it weren't?). There is no "global terror network" called "al-Qaeda"; there is simply Islam doing what Islam does, because it is Islam. And so forth.

But there really is the neoconservative network as set out above. It exists. It functions. British MPs are among those under its daily direction, and the consequences are clear in Afghanistan, in Iraq, and as we prepare to detain people for months without even charging them with anything. None of this is any sort of secret, as a "conspiracy" must be: it is loudly proclaimed with pride. To say this is not anti-Semitic: few of the Euston Manifesto Group, and even fewer of the Henry Jackson Society, are Jewish. It is simply anti-neoconservative.

And that, of course, is the problem. Hence the smears, however ill-executed and laughable.

Frit.

16 comments:

  1. And what precisely is wrong with neoconservatism? It is the neoconservatives that have moral clarity. If you read Norman Podhoretz latest book World War IV you will see that is the case.

    The problem with wishy-washy liberals is that they are prepared to accept brutal treatment of any population providing that population is under the control of an anti-American dictator.

    Liberals do not care that woman are treated as second-class citizens in Iran, they look over the fact that the Iranian regime executes homosexuals. The list goes on. Liberals such as you David, who have the fortune of living in a true democracy, are free to criticize your own government. Try that in Iran or Iraq under Saddam and see what would have happened.

    It is the neoconservatives that undertand the importance of a liberal democracy. It is they who want to bring the freedoms that you have to them.

    Quite frankly, I find it an outrage that some people make highly derogatory marks about neocons without stopping to think what good they have done for the world, especially since 9/11.

    Michael

    ReplyDelete
  2. Thought you might be interested given the WGA strike.

    http://urwrd.blogspot.com/

    ReplyDelete
  3. Michael, (and if you are going to use you name, then why post anonymously?):

    1. I am not a liberal, at least not in any sense that you might mean;

    2. Such criticism is increasingly normal in Iran, whereas it is increasingly difficult in Britain or the United States, precisely because of the power of the neocon junta, the existence and activities of which render less and less secure the descrioption of those (and other) countries as "true democracies", in which, of course, the disciples of Leo Strauss do not believe anyway;

    3. Your last two paragraphs are too laughable and despicable for words.

    If they want to contest any of this, then where is their party?

    Frit.

    ReplyDelete
  4. David,

    Your comments are truly hilarious and reflect that of the ill informed. To suggest that criticism of the government in Britain or the USA is "increasingly difficult" due to the "power of the neocon junta" is pure fantasy. You only have to look at the pages of the Guardian newspaper in the UK from where you live to note that the government and its actions can be criticised freely. Stand at Speakers Corner in Hyde Park and you can denounce the government at will and despite the fact the police may be there, you will not be arrested.

    Against this, in Iraq under Saddam, the population were scared to even say a word that might even be perceived to be against that brutal dictator. In Iran, as Azar Nafisi eloquently describes, she could not even teach Jane Austen free of harassment as it was deemed not Islamic. However, the Iranian government does believe it is eminently sensible to host conferences arguing that the Holocaust is a myth, to suggest that it is perfectly valid to wipe a legitimate country of the map and then to argue that it has the right to have a nuclear capability, so it can presumably carry out its genocidal threat. Merely getting caught writing a blog that is hostile the government can have you thrown in prison or worse and that is Iran - you do not have such problems in the UK and these problems do not exist in the USA either.

    In sum, democracy David, is good. As elected governments wish to be re-elected, they must act in the interest of the population or the population will vote against.

    The population had a chance post the commencement of the war in Iraq to vote against Tony Blair, who for your information is a socialist from the Labour Party and not a neocon. Similarly, the population in the USA could have voted against George W. Bush in 2004. In both instances the populations reelected the incumbents.

    Are you not in favor of regime change in Iran David? Do you tolerate this theocracy that treats woman as second class citizens and is a threat to world stability?

    The British Labour party has come a long way since the days when Michael Foot wanted to have unilateral nuclear disarmament and surrender itself defenseless to the threat from the communist Soviet Union. For this they should be applauded. Tony Blair had the foresight to support the global war on terror and has assisted the Americans in their campaigns to bring democracy to Afghanistan and Iraq, I can only hope that George Bush sees this through and also brings democracy to Iran, hopefully with the support of Gordon Brown.

    Michael

    ReplyDelete
  5. "You only have to look at the pages of the Guardian newspaper"

    How many people do you think read the Guardian? And yes, it is increasingly difficult even there.

    "to suggest that it is perfectly valid to wipe a legitimate country of the map"

    He never said that, although it's probably still being reported as fact that he did by the ludicrous American media. As I have posted before, Israel as we have known her is voluntarily dying out anyway, so why go to the trouble of bombing her?

    "As elected governments wish to be re-elected, they must act in the interest of the population or the population will vote against."

    Only if it can. See below.

    "Tony Blair, who for your information is a socialist from the Labour Party and not a neocon"

    Some people reading that will laugh out loud. Others will be reduced to tears.

    "The population had a chance post the commencement of the war in Iraq to vote against Tony Blair"

    Not really. He was up against the only "Opposition" that he could still have beaten by then. And it was as pro-war as he was. But you'll notice how he's been removed anyway, thank God.

    "Similarly, the population in the USA could have voted against George W. Bush in 2004."

    Ditto. Except for the removal anyway, unfortunately.

    "In both instances the populations reelected the incumbents."

    In the British case with all of twenty-two per cent of the eligible vote.

    "Do you tolerate this theocracy that treats woman as second class citizens and is a threat to world stability?"

    If such a thing existed, then I would not tolerate it. Or do you mean the Bush Administraton?

    "The British Labour party has come a long way since the days when Michael Foot wanted to have unilateral nuclear disarmament and surrender itself defenseless to the threat from the communist Soviet Union"

    It might have been wrong then, but it's an excellent idea now. Was every other country in Europe except France "defenceless"? Was Canada, Australia or New Zealand? Are they now? And there is an emerging academic recognition (although I doubt that it would ever be allowed to be published in the US) that the Soviet Union never intended to invade Western Europe, and could not possibly have done so.

    "Tony Blair had the foresight to support the global war on terror and has assisted the Americans in their campaigns to bring democracy to Afghanistan and Iraq"

    If you really believe this, then you are demented.

    "I can only hope that George Bush sees this through and also brings democracy to Iran, hopefully with the support of Gordon Brown."

    No chance. Absolutely none. Unless Argentina invades the Falkland Islands again, I doubt that Britain will ever fight another war after Afghanistan and Iraq. Ever.

    ReplyDelete
  6. "Unless Argentina invades the Falkland Islands again, I doubt that Britain will ever fight another war after Afghanistan and Iraq. Ever."

    I hope you're right, David. But we are already many years into one with near-total public opposition from the first suggestion, and another that most people now want to pull out of, but both with uncritical cross-party support. As you yourself say, it's a matter of there being anyone else to vote for. Anyone not under the daily control of the American neocons.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Which is as much a problem for Americans as for anyone else. They are about to face the "choice" between making Bill "Bomber of the Balkans" Clinton President again in all but name, and making Norman Podhoretz, if not President in all but name (though possibly so), then certainly at least National Security Adviser and possibly even Secretary of State.

    ReplyDelete
  8. David,

    I find your arguments increasingly hysterical. I pointed out the press is free to criticize the government in the UK, despite your insistence that it "increasingly difficult" by providing an example of the Guardian. You do not deny that this newspaper does criticize government policy but dismiss it on the grounds that you imply not many people read the newspaper. The point is David that they are free to read it. That newspaper together with other newspapers that are critical of the government are openly for sale by newsagents around the country. This is not possible in countries such as Iran.

    Regarding the comments by the President of Iran, I see you are denying what he plainly said. This is precisely how it was reported, not in the first instance by what you refer to as "the ludicrous American media" but by the official Iranian news reporters - IRIB. This official news report has still not been changed and it can be seen

    http://www.iribnews.ir/Full_en.asp?news_id=200247

    I suppose next you will denying that Al Qaeda was responsible for 9/11?

    I do not see why people will "laugh out loud" or even be "reduced to tears" for my accurate claim that the Labour Party is a socialist party. I bring to your attention the official web site of the British Labour party which highlights its own constitution that states:

    "The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone, so as to create for each of us the means to realise our true potential and for all of us a community in which power, wealth and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not the few."

    Source:

    http://www.labour.org.uk/labour_policies

    The United Kingdom is not a single party state David. Anyone can stand for election - and I understand that you are yourself. To my knowledge there was an anti-war party by the name of Respect, that only managed to get one MP elected despite the fact that anyone was free to vote for it in the areas they stood. The Liberal party which is a force to be reckoned with in the UK was also, to my knowledge, anti-war, yet despite this, the population voted to re-elect Labour. It is true that Tony Blair is no longer prime-Minister, but his successor, I hope will broadly follow his foreign policies in so far as the Global War On Terror is concerned.

    If I can provide enough evidence to you that woman are treated as second class citizens in Iran and that homosexuals even worse, would you be prepared to denounce the regime in your policies?

    Finally you state, "Unless Argentina invades the Falkland Islands again, I doubt that Britain will ever fight another war after Afghanistan and Iraq. Ever." Britain has a proud tradition of fighting oppressive regimes. That great leader Winston Churchill was an inspiration to the world for the way he opposed the Nazi regime of Germany and the British population who suffered under a Blitz of German bombing showed great spirit. This has been continued. Impressively, when the Bosnians were being massacred by the Serbs, the British sent in troops to intervene. There are many cases where the British troops have played a role in peacekeeping and in fighting against oppressive regimes. You should not look down at the spirit of your own population in such a demeaning fashion.

    Michael

    ReplyDelete
  9. You know absolutely nothing about British politics. I honestly do not know where to begin.

    ReplyDelete
  10. He knows nothing about Yugoslavia, either. But then nor do most British people, fed the same pap even now that has been thrown out in open court.

    ReplyDelete
  11. My personal favourite is that "the Liberals are a force to be reckoned with". Is that supposed to be joke? Sadly not.

    Not following Bush (or Clinton, or Giuliani, or anyone else) into any more wars is why Brown was installed instead of Blair. Iraq was why Blair had to go. A trenchant critic of the Iraq War from the UN is now a Foreign Office Minister, and a junior minister who resigned in order to oppose the war is now in the Cabinet. Even the new Foreign Secretary (a Jew, if it matters) was by all accounts ambivalent about the war.

    Presumably these facts are not being reported in America. Americans are therefore unaware of the very profound regime change in Britain, where there is now a de facto pacifist majority unless our soil is invaded. Which is hardly likely, if you don't count the wholly unaccountable American bases here.

    ReplyDelete
  12. On the contrary to what you say, It seems that it is you that do not understand the British population and its glorious spirit in the face of adversity. That is why I suspect that your own campaign to be elected wil get nowhere.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Oh, I think that I understand the British People a great deal better than you do.

    I have suspected from the time itself that Americans were not being told the full story about Blair and Iraq, which the story of overwhelming public opposition, since hardened even further by events.

    ReplyDelete
  14. I'm sorry, I posted that last comment anonymously by mistake - I don't want anyone to think that my support for your party is anonymous so please feel free to publish my real name, Patrick Michael Dawn.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Michael, I'm much more sympathetic to your arguments than David Lindsay, but you're not so much shooting yourself in the foot as blowing both it and the lower part of your leg clean off by continuing to push the "Tony Blair is a socialist" line.

    Whatever the Labour Party says about itself, it is patently absurd to describe Blair as any kind of socialist. In fact, it was his very public repudiation of many of the basic tenets of socialism in the run-up to 1997 that secured him sufficient popularity for an election victory.

    As for Respect, it's probably not fair to compare them with the truly national parties, since they only contested 26 seats. But of those, they only did significantly well in just four, suggesting either that being anti-war in itself isn't much of a vote-winner (unless the candidate was a high-profile demagogue like George Galloway deliberately targeting a seat with a high Muslim population), or that the public found the rest of their far-left policies unappealing.

    But the mere fact that Respect could only muster 26 candidates despite plenty of extremely high-profile coverage (and Veritas got even more column inches and could only field 65) makes me highly sceptical of Lindsay's plans to field candidates in every constituency. For starters, this would cost a minimum of £650,000 in deposits alone, even before the additional costs of mounting a national campaign are taken into account, which will multiply that figure several times over.

    I'm assuming Lindsay doesn't have that kind of money, so how's he going to raise it by 2009? Will individual candidates such as Neil Clark be required to make a contribution, either through fundraising or out of their own pockets?

    ReplyDelete
  16. "In fact, it was his very public repudiation of many of the basic tenets of socialism in the run-up to 1997 that secured him sufficient popularity for an election victory."

    Rubbish. Labour would have won anyway.

    As for the money thing, it's all in hand.

    ReplyDelete