Monday, 5 January 2009
The Czechs and Israel
No surprise there. They, too, engaged in large-scale ethnic cleansing in the Forties, again of people who had lived there for many centuries and had historically predominated, who could not possibly have been responsible for the crimes of Nazi Germany (not having been in the Weimar Republic, the Sudeten Germans could not have voted for Hitler even if they had wanted to), who were somehow blamed for those crimes anyway, and who had been given what turned out to be worthless assurances by the Allies.
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Whilst not condoning many acts of barbarism carried out against the Sudeten-Germans at the end of the war, you do not mention their support for the Nazi puppet Henlein.
ReplyDeleteDuring the inter-war period, Henlien created a brother Nazi party to Hitler's and took money from him to stir up trouble in Czechoslovakia. Before 1938 he had aquired 60% of the vote for Sudeten-German parties at Czechoslovakian election and he had a major hand in Munich.
Taking into consideration the general Sudeten German welcome of the Sudetenland by Hitler in 1938, the whiphand given to them after the annexation of the rest of the Czech lands in 1939 and the role many of them took in administrating them for the Nazis, it is no surprise there was anger at the end of the war against them.
Remember Lidice, remember Lezaky. Remember that at least 1620 non-Jewish Czechs (which included several priests) were executed in revenge for the Heydrich assasination. Remember the 3000 Czech jews slaughtered in the concentration camp at Teschin in vengence for Heydrich's death.
Remember the executions carried out by Heydrich himself. Remember the threat after his assasination that the Nazis would literally decimate the Czech population if his assassins did not hand themselves in.
Remember Hitler's view that the Czechs who were not prepared to be Germanised were to be "resettled".
As I said, I do not condone but I will not pretend not to understand.
(And you complain about what went on in the Balkans during that period!)
"Whilst not condoning many acts of barbarism carried out against the Sudeten-Germans at the end of the war, you do not mention their support for the Nazi puppet Henlein."
ReplyDeleteThey weren't really given much choice.
"Before 1938 he had aquired 60% of the vote for Sudeten-German parties at Czechoslovakian election"
Define Sudeten German parties. Did all Sudeten Germans vote for them? They would have been much more powerful if so.
"Taking into consideration the general Sudeten German welcome of the Sudetenland by Hitler in 1938"
Again (as also in Austria), what choice were they given?
"Remember the 3000 Czech jews slaughtered in the concentration camp at Teschin in vengence for Heydrich's death"
I know that this might sound cold-hearted, but if they were already at Teschin then they would have been slaughtered anyway. They were there for being Jewish, not for being Czech. And they were killed for being Jewish, not for being Czech.
Possibly more to the point, there is no reason to assume that Slavic Czechs were any less anti-Semitic than the people of any other European country (including this one) or of the United States in the Forties.
"Remember Hitler's view that the Czechs who were not prepared to be Germanised were to be "resettled"."
He never did it, though. All right, he probably would have done in the end. But we can never know. And as things turned out, it was the Sudeten Germans who ended up being "resettled", if they were lucky.
That goes far beyond simply prosecuting war criminals. And it goes a long way to explaining Czech support for a state also created by means of ethnic cleansing in the Forties.
"And you complain about what went on in the Balkans during that period!"
Don't you? If not, why not?
Exactly what choice?
ReplyDeleteHenlein did not rule the Czech Lands during the war (he was sidelined after 1939).
People voted for his party. His party won 44 of 75 seats on the "German" lists in the 1935 election. The Czechoslovakian Parliament had 300 members.
(The Germans had reserved seats as proportion of population to protect their minority status - indeed this was a practice inherited from Habsburg Austria where constituencies were divided on nationality as well as territorial lines according to the latest census - electoral geometary it was termed)
The Czechoslovakian government was dominated by five Czechoslovakian parties who held the vast share of seats between them - welded into a Swiss style coalition by Masaryk.
Your comments on the slaughter of the Jews is revolting.
Yes there was anti-semitism in the Czech lands. Many anti-semites during the Habsburg period joined Czech nationalist movements and used this as a reason to beat up Jews (The bulk of Jews in the Czech Lands registered themselves as "German" rather than "Czech" in the census - Kafka's father registered himself "Czech" but his wife was registered as "German")
Hitler's plan was to deport the Czech's to Moravia and keep Bohemia "German".
For the record, the present foriegn minister of the Czech Republic is a Sudaten German expelled when he was a boy but has now returned.
Anyway you do not mention the ethnic cleansing carried out by Yugoslavian socialist partisans of Germans and Italians from Yugoslavia as well as their attempt to seize southern Austria - which if the Allies had not intervened might of got the same treatment. Zagreb and northern Serbia had massive German populations (George Von Trapp of course came from Croatia) before the war. Interesting!
"Henlein did not rule the Czech Lands during the war (he was sidelined after 1939)"
ReplyDeleteWell, indeed - all the stronger argument against the collective punishment of the Sudeten Germans after the War.
"His party won 44 of 75 seats on the "German" lists in the 1935 election"
That still leaves a lot of people who didn't vote for them. Never mind children who couldn't have voted for anyone.
"Your comments on the slaughter of the Jews is revolting"
Why? They were in a concentration camp. The only thing that could have saved any of them was the only that ever did save anyone in a concentration camp - the end of the War by means of an Allied victory.
They were not there beacuse they were Czech. They were there because they were Jewish. And they were not killed because they were Czech. They were killed because they were Jewish.
"The bulk of Jews in the Czech Lands registered themselves as "German" rather than "Czech" in the census"
Ah, the Jews' thousand-odd-year love affair with Germany. Unrequited, of course. But all the stronger for that.
And might it not be possible that this, alongside the War itself, underlay the clearing out of the Sudeten Germans - that it was an anti-Semitic act (whether or not any of the victims actually were Jewish) as well as an anti-Nazi act (whether or not any of the victims actually were Nazis)? I rather suspect so.
"Hitler's plan was to deport the Czech's to Moravia and keep Bohemia "German"."
Which would have been bad. But his plans for a lot of other people were a great deal worse. And he went through with many of them.
Actually, he hadn't really thought through this one at all. It was Moravia, especially the south, that contained whole districts in which many ethnic Germans had never even met a Czech. That didn't happen in Bohemia.
"Anyway you do not mention"
Oh, don't! You're better than that!
But since we must, neither Serbia nor Croatia has supported the Israeli action in Gaza.
"Zagreb and northern Serbia had massive German populations (George Von Trapp of course came from Croatia) before the war"
I think that a very few of them are still there in northern Serbia, as also in Transylvania, where, likewise, they live among the Magyars.
There are very few Germans in the former Yugoslavia because they were expelled.
ReplyDeleteThe situation was different in Romania. Whilst there was some initial expulsions, most Germans were allowed to stay and indeed were kept virtual prisoners within the country by the communist authorities. The biggest exodus of them during the communist period was when the West Germans, invoking their "right of return" "bought" several thousand Romanian-Germans from the Ceasescu regime with hard currency (DMs and Dollars).
The Kohl government at one point was paying something like $2000 a soul. After the fall of communism many of the Germans took the opportunity of the "right of return" and went to Germany.
There still is a fairly large German presence in the country though (compared to their neighoburs). Sibiu (Hermanstadt) is governed by the German Party as are a number of smaller municipalities around the country. In Sighisoara (Schassburg) all the churches within the city walls are German-speaking (Lutheran and Catholic)as is the school within the city walls.
Concerning the motivation of the expulsion of Sudaten-Germans, it was simply revenge for the aforementioned acts. The expulsion was not wholescale. Those who could prove they were not Nazi-supporters (obviously Jews) were allowed to stay.
The onus (unfair as it was) was to prove you were not a Nazi.
Anti-semitism did not operate as part of government policy during the Masaryk-pre-war Benes period. Indeed the Czechoslovakian government fell over itself to provide needs (not always observed by officials) to the national minorities even to the extent of providing special high-schools to Roma who would otherwise would not have had the opportunity to go to school discrimination-free at that level - as what happened in neighbouring states and much the rest of Europe.
Obviously you are right concerning the Serb and Croat's not backing Israel. I am not backing Israel on what is happening.
However for a thought - whilst German parties were tolerated in Czechoslovakia, German parties were banned in early 1920's by Belgrade, years before the instalment of the royal dictatorship by Alexander I Karageovic.